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Thursday, July 2, 2026
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- dreamrealjreicher: moonfall is a terrible movie that established the standard for terrible movies. Moonfall got five moonfalls. Magnolia not none.
- dreamrealMoonfalls isn't a measure of a movie's QUALITY - it's a measure of the opposite. Negaquality. Moonfall was dumb and bad and didn't even buy it's own crap. Godzilla was enjoyable but failed to buy its own bull: two moonfalls. That's how it be.
- dreamrealThere are certainly other movies that get five moonfalls but it's a bar no movie should aspire to. Even movies that are bad on purpose believe in how bad they are: THEY struggle to get five moonfalls.
- jreicherOh. Haven't seen it, but Green Hornet is the benchmark for me. Possibly the only movie I've ever seen that I couldn't finish watching.
- jreicherBut it was a while ago. Maybe I didn't understand the humour.
- jreicher(at that stage in my life)
- johnjayjreicher: ah i forgot or blanked out you were in java. evening
- jreicher<sniff> Nice to be appreciated. <sniff>
- johnjayheh, no problem.
- johnjayi never read the channel rules before but it does mention droid isn't java.
- jreicherWere we talking about that? I have a very bad memory these days.
- johnjayapparently the runtime isn't the jvm or doesn't match it somehow
- johnjayno i just clicked the rules and was skimming them.
- johnjayi guess it raises the question of, is some language based on the jvm java? idk.
- jreicherYou're allowed to sing the praises of Dynamo if you want though, apparently. Just learned that recently.
- johnjayi googled that term but i didn't get a certain result. is it an IDE?
- johnjayin any case I have some java books. but I don't feel like parting with them.
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- deeboanyone using jdtls on linux for ai agents or neovim or something? what's the proper way to install it?
- jreicherI use jdtls with Emacs. I just untar it into a dir and go.
- jreicherIt's fantastic.
- jreicherThe DAP plugin for it too.
- deebohmm lets see
- deeboargh the tgz archive was a trap, it had no leading subdir
- jreicherWhy is that a trap? For me that makes it even easier. I unpack into "local"
- deeboeverything else has given me the expectation that when i `tar zxvf app-1.2.3.tgz` it has a leading `app-1.2.3/` directory
- jreicherIf anything it should be the reverse, in my opinion. That name is already on the tarfile. Why duplicate it inside the file also?
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- deebono comment on that, my expectation just has been that there is a leading directory :)
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- jreicherdeebo: did you get jdtls working? Sounded like you wanted to hook it up to neovim?
- deeboin this case claude code, waiting for request to get some more tokens to get approved :)
- jreicherYou want to use both claude and jdrls?
- deeboclaude seems to do better and use less insane commands when an lsp is available to get info about code
- deeboand it seems to be working now
- deebothough seems at least as invoked by claude via its official plugin, jdtls dumps a bunch of settings and other files in to the working dir, so have to figure that one out
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- dreamrealjohnjay: ~dynamo
- dreamreal~dymano
- javabotdreamreal, what does that even *mean*?
- dreamrealdamn it
- dreamreal~dynamo
- javabotDynamoDB is a NoSQL database engine created by Amazon. It supports key/value and document models. It's very (VERY) scalable, but it comes at a cost: there is no guarantee WHEN things will happen, but THAT they will happen. See https://aws.amazon.com/dynamodb/
- dreamrealand android is not java, although it uses the java language; the JVM and its spec are what defines "java" and android does not run java bytecode nor does what it DOES run conform to the java specification, and without that, something ain't java
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- ChronosThe "official" Android programming language is Kotlin these days -- is that correct?
- ChronosJava is still supported for Android development, but _somewhat_ "deprecated"?
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- dreamrealI dunno
- dreamrealI'm too good for android
- cheeserChronos: #android-dev could tell you
- fizzieIt's "Kotlin-first", officially, since 2019. https://developer.android.com/kotlin/first
- Chronosfizzie: Thanks!
- ChronosI blame dreamreal for my curiosity, based on the "and android is not java, although it uses the java language" message above!
- Chronosdreamreal: It's all your fault!
- dreamrealoh no. whatever shall i do.
- dreamrealI shall fan myself rigorously in horror or something.
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- johnjaydreamreal: i think what i was trying to say is, is something still "java" if it runs on the jvm?
- johnjaymeaning, is clojure or schala still "java"? that would be like saying c++ and c# are the same because they both run on the CLR
- ParaNope.
- ParaJava is a language, bytecode is the intermediate which is executed on the JVM.
- ParaScala and Clojure both emit bytecode.
- johnjayright. but what i mean is java seems to imply both. the language and also the substrate of the JVM it runs on
- ParaCLR's Microsofted term for bytecode is Intermediate Language.
- johnjayoh yes i remember now
- ParaWhich, btw, was literally invented by lawyers trying to hide the fact that they cloned JVM spec. Too bad photocopiers can photocopy logos in corners.
- johnjayi haven't read the CLR spec. is it heavily copied?
- ParaLiterally a photocopy of...whatever version it was.
- ParaMicrosoft was sued by Sun and had to pay a nice billion for infringment. Too bad it was too late at Sun's lifecycle and didn't really stop the demise, just slowed it down.
- johnjaythat's... somewhat surprising. i thought microsoft at least pretended to innovate back then.
- ParaThey have done some changes and nowadays it's very much its own thing.
- johnjayi see
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- dreamrealjava is an overloaded term. You can have java-the-language, and java-the-ecosystem.
- dreamrealclojure runs on java-the-ecosystem, as does scala, and so forth.
- dreamrealpffft, MS tried to take Java over and extend it, Sun said no, MS said "fine we'll steal it and create our own" and thus the CLR
- dreamrealit's really good in a lot of ways, has features a lot of people kinda wish Java had, esp back then, but definitely caters to MS' model
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- ParaAnd some features have turned out to be a detriment, e.g. Java's type erasure in fact has enabled the implementation of dynamic languages on the JVM (before all the modern tricks like invokedynamic et al)
- Para...alternative approaches to features in the CLR being a detriment, I mean
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- Drixtanimo, the async/await is a blunter too
- Drixtans/blunter/blunder
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- jsmoothIs all web programming in java j2ee?
- waznope
- comradjsmooth: j2ee was back in the 90s
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- Tenchij2ee https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=031vKBPk5eA
- nevetYouTube: Now that is a name I haven't heard in a long time | reactionvids
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- jreicherjohnjay: to expand on what dreamreal said, when languages like Clojure refer to targeting "Java the ecosystem" they mean even more than running on the JVM; they also mean providing access to interfaces and libraries written in Java.
- jreicherPara: why do you say type erasure has enabled dynamic languages? (Leaving aside the idea that type erasure is a behaviour rather than an inevitable property)
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