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Chat Logs
Wednesday, July 22, 2026
- llanhmockhm, so is it me or does sdkman only have java 21.0.11, I'm having to go manual for 21.0.12.
- NeXeNthat's what i see on their site (sdkman)
- NeXeNRelease date: July 21, 2026 <--- probably why it's not on sdkman yet
- nevetRelease date: July 21, 2026 < now has karma of -1.
- llanhmockhm.. it's fine. just a matter of changing the patch version in my /etc/profile.local
- llanhmockthen again - I never used sdkman to install java in the first place, though I have sdkman installed (on openSUSE). never did get back to trying the workaround for windows.
- llanhmockor maybe I did try it and it still didn't work. something to do with 7z.
- dreamrealI don't see 21.0.12, it may take some time to get uploaded too
- dreamrealI'm excited, work might be going to 25
- llanhmockwe did
- llanhmockmy linux box is still on 21
- llanhmockhm, now IDEA... updates all around
- NeXeNi like sdkman, no joke. but yeah i mean a fresh drop might not appear for a few hours, i'm sure someone got the notification
- llanhmockNeXeN: you use Toolbox App also? I'm considering it but I've done standalone for so long.
- NeXeNnah
- ParaJust musing, what would you use to interact with a WebSocket API within a Java app? Libraries, general design, etc.
- dreamrealPara: cheeser's written one, I think
- dreamreal~websocket
- javabotWebsocket is a protocol to establish bi-directional connections over HTTP. Most HTTP libs support it. More information and tutorials: https://bit.ly/2OCJKX6 (Oracle) and https://bit.ly/2NocSN5 (eclipse).
- nevetJava EE 7: Building Web Applications with WebSocket, JavaScript and HTML5
- cheeseri helped build that spec, even!
- cheeserjetty has a ws client, iirc.
- hassoonws ?
- cheeserwebsocket
- hassoonah ok
- * Chronos shakes fist at cheeser because ws can also mean WebSphere which produces PTSD
- ballWasn't that IBM's web server?
- dreamrealwhich one
- dreamrealIBM doesn't have "a web server" - they'd use httpd now, and probably prefer nginx or caddy anyway
- dreamrealif you're talking about an app server, they have a few of those too
- dreamrealwebsocket's just a protocol for which there are multiple implementations in java
- balldreamreal: I'll have to look up WebSphere then to see what it was.
- dreamrealwebsphere is one of theirs, yes, but the discussion was websocket, not websphere
- ballPerhaps that's just down to when I walked in then.
- dreamrealfrom the logs, the only "web*" is websocket in the last day or so
- balldreamreal: Chronos mentioned WebSphere fifteen minutes ago.
- dreamrealoh, I ignore that fool! (actually, I just missed it since weechat didn't distinguish the action clearly enough for a casual scan)
- dreamrealin that case: retracted, I was trying to provide clarity and not correct you, and that was invalid
- dreamrealyou weren't wrong in the slightest
- ballNo offense taken. I'm new here. Saw something today about an opportunity to learn Java. I'm having a think about that.
- dreamrealit can be great! Got any questions? Plenty of really bright people here to ask, and I'm here too
- ballIs there a surplus of people who can code in Java? I'm wondering how difficult it would be to get started professionally.
- dreamrealI don't think "being able to code" is the measure. Being able to think and express well is. I don't think there's a surplus of THOSE people, and Java's an environment that needs people as much as any other, and it's pretty popular.
- dreamreal~tiobe
- javabotThe TIOBE index tracks the popularity of various programming languages on a month-to-month basis. It doesn't track "the best" but just the popularity of various languages. See https://tiobe.com/tiobe-index/ for more.
- * ball ponders
- dreamrealball: The thing is, and stop me when you like: I know a bunch of languages moderately well. I suck at tech screens, though, because I have to learn each one over again for the screen unless it's something I've done recently, yeah? Like, sit me down in a python interview and you're going to spend ten minutes while I remember if it's fun or def or what, and I'll be thinking "wait, how do I coerce types
- dreamrealagain..."
- dreamrealBut the thing is, I know *what* to do, and where to look for it, so an interview that endures me remembering *syntax* - the easy part - usually comes off going "okay, this is a candidate we could use," and I have receipts that I can't quite recount publicly for $reasons on this. THAT's the skill to cultivate; Java's just... a form of it.
- ballI've heard about software development interviews. They don't sound very nice.
- dreamrealPeople suck, and they often don't know how to interview, and a lot of them see it as an opportunity to pull rank over new people.
- dreamrealIt's unfortunate and I hate it, but I don't mind THOSE INTERVIEWS very much, because 1) I've probably done more than they have, I have rank they don't, and 2) anyone who shows their asses to me like that is mostly telling me I do not want to help them succeed.
- ParaI have C programming book from the nineties which spends first third about how abstract thinking and logic works.
- ParaAnd basically comes with a warning that if you can't get through these sections, programming isn't for you.
- dreamrealhah. Which book is it, para?
- ballK&R?
- dreamrealCan't be, K&R doesn't do that
- ballIt's so long since I picked up a copy.
- ParaSome Finnish teaching book so kinda lost reference. Probably at least inspired by whatever English material was available at the time, first printing predates Internet.
- dreamrealK&R's great but K&R C < ANSI C, and ANSI C has long exceeded what K&R was, IMO
- ballMy Algol book predates the Internet ;-)
- dreamrealPara: oh, so bork bork bork bork neener bork?
- ParaExcuse me, that's Swedish.
- ballISTR that's what prompted the 2nd ed. of K&R book.
- dreamrealPara: finnish, swedish, polish, same difference, right?
- Para(in Sweden the Swedish chef is apparently Norwegian, and in Norway Danish...if I remember this correctly)
- * ball looks sad
- ParaSomeone compared Finnish to gnomes chanting spells recently. And Polish to summoning demons.
- ParaI don't know how this relates to Java, but I do know that smart people with good skills on the most common proglangs will be useful in the future.
- dreamrealball: I have both copies floating around, both ANSI and K&R, and the thing is, part of me really loves K&R because it's so tied to the machine
- ballJust detached enough to be somewhat portable.
- ballIt's not /that/ far removed from assembly language.
- dreamrealyeah. The way K&R mandated pulling values directly off the stack like that... is bork bork bork chef's kiss, esp for people like me who cme to it *from* assmebly
- * ball nods
- ballI did Z80 and 8086 assembly
- ballI don't /think/ I did much 6502.
- dreamrealI did z80 and 65xx, ended up doing 68k and a few others
- dreamrealCommodore 64, baby! ... and I have one on my desk RIGHT NOW
- ball68k must have fealt pretty damn luxurious compared to the 8-bits.
- dreamreal68k and then there was SPARC - talk about luxury, sparc felt magical
- ballThe register windowing was interesting.
- ParaFriend told me during our teenage years that I "would probably be a really good C64 assembly programmer." To this day I have no idea whether that was an insult or a compliment.
- dreamrealso, um, using my awemusoe powers of observation: if you're able to talk competently about algol, ansi vs K&R, z80... java's gonna be trivial for you, and if you can think besides, you'll be fine
- balldreamreal: Thanks, that's encouraging.
- ball...and right now I'll take all the encouragement I can get.
- dreamrealand if it makes you feel any better, this is a lot what a GOOD technical interview should feel like
- GreenResponseheh, Java is called “blue collar worker” language in the Cult Repo documentary
- dreamrealthat's because it doesn't know what the fucking fuck it's talking about
- dreamrealpardonnez moi francais, etc
- dreamrealfunny thing about low expectations; they're self-fulfilling. I do stuff with java that some people think is beyond impossible: "that'll be slow! It'll take you... what do you mean you're done already?"
- ParaWell, it's kinda like the Clojure documentary which omitted the entire Europe originating ecosystem because apparently flying around USA was fun but not going even once over the Atlantic or even having a Zoom call was seemed as necessary :)
- ballI should go and get my daughter from the library. I'll be back later, hopefully.
- jreicherdreamreal: I think you'll like this, if you haven't seen it before. https://www.baldurbjarnason.com/2024/react-electron-llms-labour-arbitrage/
- nevetReact, Electron, and LLMs have a common purpose: the labour arbitrage theory of dev tool popularity
- javabotjreicher's title: "React, Electron, and LLMs have a common purpose: the labour arbitrage theory of dev tool popularity"
- dreamrealoof
- dreamrealokay, reading
- jreicherI might even agree with it. Still thinking about it. Interesting theory.