Community

Chat Logs

Friday, September 11, 2026

00:15:16SquareI'm replacing a JSF frontend with React for a semi big java application . What approach do you feel is more natural and easy to work with: A) npm/webpack(possibly Vite later) or B) frontend-maven-plugin?
00:24:44SquareClaude answered it.
00:33:38* arkadio joined #java
01:04:33SquareAnyone using "Jetbrains Gateway" for local container development? I wonder if it creates a directory called '~' in your home folder? Feels like a bug to me.
01:48:13* hwpplayer1 joined #java
02:10:05* kcomhnall joined #java
03:59:17* ferdna joined #java
04:23:06sirecmgman jsf is the worst ><
04:23:15sirecmgit is probably easy to work with jsf with claude though
04:23:44* lain6141_ joined #java
04:30:43* Zapek joined #java
04:37:21* deavmi joined #java
05:03:10deebodon't do react, do htmx or something :)
05:03:39deebounless you're 100% client side, having to deal with SSR is pure satan
05:05:12* sbalmos_ joined #java
05:05:53* jjj333_p joined #java
05:16:25Squaredeebo: SSR?
05:17:37Squareoh server side rendering?
05:17:38deeboserver side rendering
05:17:39ParaServer Side Rendering. Acronym made to justify doing stupid things; not really the concept as a whole but more of a "I want to run React on server because durrrr".
05:18:24Squaredeebo: I thought react didn't ship with SSR out of the box?
05:18:55SquareI've seen the horrors in Next.js
05:19:01deebodepends on how you serve it
05:20:05SquareFor vanilla React it's not a problem right? This is just a low traffic admin application.
05:20:40deebonextjs does it ok, i'd actually use it isntead of anything self bootstrapped from a template that will be obsolete next week
05:21:21deebowe have a 10+ year big react+ssr project and the constant upgrading is the biggest hassle, on nextjs there would at least be more help and possibly tooling
05:24:05deebounless you're working on it at least weekly for the foreseeable future, don't roll your own webpack/whatever/etc build, just use nextjs
05:24:17deeboespecially for a backoffice app
05:25:03deeboantd + nextjs is a good way to go there (we run a few of these), not sure if htmx has anything comparable for components
05:27:38comradPara: SSR is the proof to me, that we just went to hell and back. First everyone wanted to render on the client, now it's all back to server rendering again.
05:28:53ParaAnd the reason of course was that wait, this is actually slow when we take into account all the necessary things!?
05:29:20ParaWith a good helping of forcing one trick as solution for all of it.
05:29:21Squaredeebo: I don't see the need for server side rendering for a low traffic admin application.
05:29:36ParaAll software could be made with just a single megafunction.
05:29:53Squarenow you sound like a functional programmer =D
05:30:19Squaredeebo: (but maybe I'm wrong)
05:30:39SquareSSR is for a snappy feel was my understanding.
05:31:12ParaAt least part of it is/was motivated by Google's millisecond golfing.
05:32:14Squarewdym? I think I've missed this. For ad brokering?
05:32:17ParaIt used to be that Google's indexer refused to render more than one full redraw, and people made shit frontends which would redraw wildly during initial load. Google also timeouted the process quickly (remember when CPU was expensive?), and site rank algorithm would use snappiness as driving factor.
05:32:40ParaThere was endless papers and blog posts about how small ms loads would lead to tens of percents of higher sales.
05:33:04Squareah ok
05:34:02* Cae2 joined #java
05:35:01SquareSo none of you use "Jetbrains Gateway"?
05:35:12Square...what do you use instead?
05:36:03Para...have to look up first what that even is.
05:36:36SquareIt's Jetbrains Dev Container take is my understanding
05:37:03ParaOh I don't use Dev Containers, those are shit.
05:37:08Squarehaha
05:37:27ParaThe idea is OK but so far I've only seen failures and even worse build setups with them in projects than what they are supposed to fix.
05:37:34SquareSo you let the agents have free reign on you system?
05:37:51Squareyour*
05:38:10ParaI generally don't let agents run things :) I do per-command verification, and most often tool calling agents tend to deteriorate on themselves as well.
05:38:41ParaThe issue is that the "thinking" process does 20 mistakes to get 1 result, and while this could be ignored, it also means 20x cost. So don't let them think.
05:39:10ParaAlso I think at least Anthropic's models are deteriorating in general. I'm fairly certain e.g. Sonnet used to be better half a year ago than today.
05:41:30SquareAh interesting perspective. I've been so non curious about agentic coding so I started using it this week for the first time.
05:41:45deebofor anything actual user facing with SEO needs, you need SSR (still), for backoffice tooling we just have "use client;" in every component so it only works on the client
05:41:47SquareI thought the hole industry was diving into it
05:42:33deeboi just give claude/copilot access to IDEA MCP and if it want's do something stupid like download jars and decompile them i tell it to just stop, and sometimes it even listens!
05:42:34comradthat's what their marketing wants you to think ;)
05:43:41deeboit's a good tool when you need to do something in bulk, or repeat the same thing over many repositories, but anything "new" still needs a few passes to clean up
05:44:33comradi am lousy with webdesign, but claude did some nice sketches, so i iterated over them. not agent, but generated and tried.
05:44:52comradi had so add some more prompts to stop it from remaking the whole thing, just to move a button more to the left
05:44:59deebowe did a few spring boot 4 upgrades manually with verification of proper configurations etc, then just pointed claude to the repos with the PRs: "look at these PRs and do the same upgrade in this repo"
05:46:02ParaSquare: On paper agentic workflows are pretty neat, it's just that the tooling seems to be focused on making an expensive mess.
05:46:20Squarehaha
05:46:42ParaAnd yeah, using LLMs to generate some corners/bits which you then massage manually into shape is a pretty good way to utilize them.
05:47:26SquareI must say this port of JSF -> React is going like proceding like a steam engine train.
05:47:39ParaAre they even concept compatible?
05:47:55ParaI'd probably create an extensive suite of E2E tests first.
05:48:24deeboyeah for agentic stuff you need tests to make sure everything actually works
05:48:39deeboand not tests by the agent itself :) it can create some insanely stupid tests
05:48:56SquareI feel we've mad a big win just by cutting off the jsf dependencies. It's holding the app back in many ways.
05:49:47Squareit's quite a simple app, but you know how things were back in the days. Tons of code for even minor things.
05:50:47comradSquare: that Port is a whole Concept Shift, you pretty much can start over as well
05:50:58SquareI haven't inspected the end result yet, just checkpoints along the way. You guys don't seem convinced so maybe I'll get a sad surprise in the end.
05:51:47comradbut jsf is not so bad, if you know why you want it
05:51:47Squarecomrad: "that Port"?
05:51:55comradSquare: JSF -> React
05:52:03Squareah ok
05:52:34SquareSure, JSF is page based, React is SPA by default.
05:52:42ParaRemains to be seen. It might work.
05:52:49ParaThe real cost is always in maintenance.
05:53:12SquareI hoped I be able to massage away the quirks that comes with it.
05:53:45SquareI imagine you can do React more page based too no?
06:00:00deeboyou can
06:00:26deebobut no one is going to get a malicious jsf.jar of a 5 year old version in mavencentral
06:01:02deebosomeone is going to get a malicious dependency of dependency of dependency in npm, and you're fucked if you don't have alerts etc set up for these :)
06:02:13ParaHm, that perks an idea. I wonder if Maven plugin ecosystem would have some kind of killswitch for downloading too old deps.
06:06:33deebodoes age directly matter?
06:07:06ParaThere probably could be a good curve of CVE rating + time.
06:23:59ParaOWASP has a config flag for plain CVE score.
06:26:45* iusr joined #java
06:33:50* node1 joined #java
06:36:29* MonsterAbyss joined #java
06:42:10* iusr joined #java
06:56:36* Krusher joined #java
07:20:18* MonsterAbyss joined #java
07:22:30* iusr joined #java
07:23:00* phlox joined #java
07:25:52* phlox joined #java
07:35:42* gas51627 joined #java
07:40:29* MonsterAbyss joined #java
07:56:09* Adrian35 joined #java
08:11:34* MonsterAbyss joined #java
08:12:43* lain6141_ joined #java
09:15:43* ta71 joined #java
09:25:24* iwtga joined #java
09:51:42* Perflosopher0387 joined #java
09:52:50* OmniRadix69891 joined #java
10:03:19* marcel1 joined #java
10:10:25* MikeBux joined #java
10:24:36* OmniRadix69891 joined #java
10:43:57* node1 joined #java
11:11:21* jamezp joined #java
11:47:57dreamrealmorning
11:49:15julemand101hi
12:10:17* Adrian35 joined #java
12:30:22* xv8 joined #java
12:50:05* pebble joined #java
13:03:02* Betal joined #java
13:21:25BombeGood morning.
13:33:09dreamreall'shana tova
13:43:36* ramontjunior joined #java
13:44:02sbalmosyarr
14:17:49* node1 joined #java
14:46:51* henbruas joined #java
14:51:14* MonsterAbyss joined #java
15:12:06* akaWolf joined #java
15:17:13* akaWolf joined #java
15:21:06* LtHummus joined #java
15:27:21* svm_invictvs joined #java
15:37:12* m2 joined #java
15:58:54* Aedil joined #java
16:14:47* dinomug joined #java
16:15:36* node1 joined #java
16:40:57ParaI wish you all 3 parts grapefruid flavored soda, 2 parts white grapefruit juice, 2 parts gin, half part fresh lemon juice, splash/dash club soda, slice of grapefruit for garnish or whatever else might be your thing this Friday.
16:58:13* magla joined #java
17:47:42BombeThat sounds nice.
17:49:29ParaIt's the recipe for Finnish long drink, "lonkero". Drink mix which was invented for the Summer Olympics 1952 and is to this day really super popular over here.
17:52:34* hwpplayer1 joined #java
18:09:51* kcomhnall joined #java
18:10:25* m2 joined #java
18:11:31* deavmi joined #java
18:15:47* deavmi joined #java
18:18:03* mindCrime joined #java
18:31:06BombeOh, that’s what that is? I always assumed it was either a beer or contained copious amounts of Salmiakki.
18:34:03ParaWe like to scare tourists with Salmiakki.
18:34:27ParaOnce we've slapped them good enough, we'll give them the pleasant stuff. Or Gambina.
20:22:08* mindCrime joined #java
20:30:32* simon816 joined #java
21:47:39* Adrian35 joined #java
23:35:48* kathadris joined #java
23:49:16* mindCrime joined #java
23:51:28* hwpplayer1 joined #java