Community
Chat Logs
Wednesday, September 30, 2026
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- deebois there some magic constant of a RuntimeException instance somewhere in the jdk? need something to refer to for CompletableFuture.failedFuture()
- deebocan of course instantiate one, but there has to be something existing :)
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- jreicherDo you mean this? https://github.com/openjdk/jdk/blob/fb268a6f43fb7e7a0b962d10504a686acfd883ff/src/java.base/share/classes/java/lang/RuntimeException.java#L45
- javabotjreicher's title: "jdk/src/java.base/share/classes/java/lang/RuntimeException.java at fb268a6f43fb7e7a0b962d10504a686acfd883ff · openjdk/jdk · GitHub"
- jreicherArgh, sorry. Should have used a branch.
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- deebois that a link to the serilizationid? i mean more like public static RuntimeException INSTANCE = new RuntimeException();, i can of course do that myself, but i'd assume there's a publicly available one somewhere in the jdk
- deeboor i could just subclass it and use the parent ctor to not create stack traces etc
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- odinsbaneClaude says it doesn't exist.
- odinsbaneIt's really strange when it tries to shoehorn the question in to the project I'm working on.
- odinsbaneIt says there are some private instances for OutOfMemory etc, because you might not be able to build a stack trace.
- odinsbane... you could override fillInStackTrace
- odinsbanehttps://stackoverflow.com/a/9866038/2067492
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- deebouse /btw :)
- NeXeNi like /stfu too
- deebobut guess i'll create a local one myself, weirdly graphql-java uses failed completedfutures for flow control kindof, but they require a throwable
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- NeXeNdeebo: no doesn't look like it, i searched the source
- NeXeNyou could create your own subclass and override fillInStackTrace() to make it light so you don't have lots of stacktrace
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- rosettahi
- NeXeNmake it stateless, pass it to .. hrmm CompleteableFutre.failedFuture(YourExtendedClassRuntimeException.YOUR_PUBLIC_STATIC_FINAL_CONSTANT and make it like a singleton
- * NeXeN shrugs
- NeXeNyour fillInStacTrace() make it return this on your extended class
- NeXeNerr sorry hard to explain what i mean. so you have a singleton. it's public static final. i would call it INSTANCE, ...like public static final YourExtendedClass INSTANCE = new YourExendedClass(); in the constructor Private YourExtendedClass() { super (null, null, false, false); (so you can suppress stack trace make it light) then @override like maybe public Throwable fillInStackTrace() { return this; ); so now pass the constant into
- NeXeN CompleteableFuture.failedFuture() when you need it for flow control
- NeXeNand when i meant you could, i mean yes i agree that'll work
- NeXeNi just tried it and yeah it's pretty light
- NeXeNbut i was reading the docs, can't you use DataFetcherResult from graphql?
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- NeXeNhttps://www.apollographql.com/tutorials/intro-dgs/11-resolver-chains
- nevetResolver chains
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- NeXeNhttps://docs.spring.io/spring-graphql/reference/controllers.html#controllers.schema-mapping.return.values
- nevetAnnotated Controllers :: Spring GraphQL
- javabotNeXeN's title: "Annotated Controllers :: Spring GraphQL"
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- deeboNeXeN: this is about org.dataloader dataloaders and their caching behaviour specifically
- deebothe docs say the ValueCache#get() needs to return a failed CompletableFuture if the cache doesn't contain the value
- deeboi just created a CheapoException that calls the super ctor that allows disabling stack traces
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- dreamrealis filling out the stack trace expensive for you? Are you getting them a LOT?
- dreamrealNo doubt that they're "expensive" but spending 3000ns every 7s is... measurable but irrelevant
- dreamreal(and yes, that 3000ns is pulled out of thin air: a deeper exception trace is going to cost more.)
- NeXeNit could also have other issues
- NeXeNso yeah, same thing i think you were trying before
- NeXeNso you can return CompleteableFuture(YourExtendedClassException.INSTANCE) seems maybe name it CacheMissException to make it sensible
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- NeXeNi also think you could look at it differently. maybe use a container type like Optional to separate the missing state from failures. you can return a CompleteableFuture<Optional<V>> ...it wil distinguish between "we looked and wasn't there" and "something actually broke" (a true exception)
- NeXeNi wouldn't do the static base exception class unless the interface you're dealing wit enforceses throwable
- NeXeNyou could also handle it at the cache map level i think......getIfPresent/GetIfCompleted or a map lookup pattern type thing ...but do it before invoking operations that require a completable future by passing the miss handling path for standard checks
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- NeXeNi just don't like futures being used for routine cache misses. instead of treating it as exceptional which forces you into the failedFuture() and trying to optimize stack trace with this kludge, you could focus on clean state checking and validation. you could use like java-dataloader to provide inspection like methods for GIP/GIC (get if present, complete, respectively) and instead of blindly calling the lookup that forces error handling branch on a
- NeXeNmiss, the code just checks if the value is already present/complete in the local cache map layer first
- NeXeNusing like redis or memcached or something?
- dmlloydI just heard a colleague utter the phase "JDK 33"
- cheeserClair Obscur: Expedition 33 was incredible. you should go play it.
- dmlloyddo I have to do the other 32 expeditions first?
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- cheeseryou don't.
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- odinsbanedreamreal you shouldn't "Fixed by using a for each ..." because you're relying on side effects. https://docs.oracle.com/en/java/javase/11/docs/api/java.base/java/util/stream/DoubleStream.html#summaryStatistics() use the terminal operation that does what you want.
- nevetDoubleStream (Java SE 11 & JDK 11 )
- dreamreal... what
- odinsbaneHa, I wrote that.
- odinsbanewhat?
- odinsbaneThis is a crazy coincidence, I remember writing that a long time ago. Then today I want to javachannel.org and it was on the top of the blog.
- odinsbaneI didn't realize it was mine, anyway. This whole chunk: double[] extrema = new double[]{-Double.MAX_VALUE, Double.MAX_VALUE};
- odinsbane rectangles.stream().forEach((rect)->{
- odinsbane double w = rect.getWidth();
- odinsbane extrema[0] = w>extrema[0]?w:extrema[0];
- odinsbane extrema[1] = w<extrema[1]?w:extrema[1];
- odinsbane });
- * cheeser eyes odinsbane
- dreamrealbut... why are you telling ME this
- odinsbaneThat should be replaced with rectangles.stream().mapToDouble().summaryStatistics()
- dreamrealright, so replace it?
- odinsbaneLike I said it is a crazy coincidence. I thought you wrote the blog post and didn't realize it was what I had sent you ... years ago?
- dreamrealIt's dated 2026/09/26, I do not run javachannel.org and have not for years
- cheeserfun fact: it's fully self-aware now and taking note of its haters.
- dreamrealoof, the rendering on the site is... not great
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- dreamrealI dunno what we did to lose yawkat but...
- cheeserhe's off at oracle doing the dark lord's work.
- dreamrealoh, good for him!
- odinsbaneAre the logs not working?
- dreamrealwhat logs
- dreamrealdang it,I am missing all the context for this discussion
- odinsbaneAnyways, I just assumed you had written it because you had written the next four or five posts.
- odinsbane- logs == channel logs
- dreamrealodinsbane: fair, I guess. bytecode.news has channel logs for #java, through nevet; dunno about javabot.
- dreamrealcheeser: I assume that's still okay, I can turn that off if you want
- cheeseri don't mind.
- cheeserthe bot is still logging. i'm mostly done with a migration off dropwizard. i just have to test that the web view still works and then i'll merge and deploy it.
- dreamrealodinsbane: nevet's logs do not go back as far as javabot's, of course
- odinsbaneOh, I was going to check the conversation from today.
- odinsbaneIt's not important.
- dreamrealhttps://pudl.bytecode.news/logs?open=logs-a3f224937f-20260930&top=logs-a3f224937f-20260930&p.logs-a3f224937f-20260930=maximized:0.06,0.05,0.55,0.75
- javabotdreamreal's title: "Logs | ByteCode.News"
- jbosmanswhat's the added value of publicly sharing all logs?
- dreamrealcontext, etc
- jbosmanslike for AI ?
- dreamrealLike, we have a lot of accumulated wisdom and the logs have a lot of it, if you know how to look
- dreamrealno
- cheeserfun fact: the early javabot had a primitive form of ... i guess it would be closer to ML than anything else. HAL it was called, iirc.
- cheeserbut it tried to serialize a map of 65+M worth of data on every channel event. performance was not great.
- dreamrealprevayler FTW!
- jbosmansi understand the value of data, but the 100% "public" of it somehow doesn't sit 100% well with me, although it's been in the topic forever so sure no complaints :)
- cheeserit's probably been the policy longer than you've used irc :)
- dreamrealWell, for IRC the recommendation is this: if you don't want it known that you said it, don't say it
- odinsbanejbosmans when you have a crappy web interface and you want to check if a topic was somehow resolved or not.
- jbosmansinteresting, how long has it been the policy? :)
- cheeserwell over 2 decades now
- dreamrealjbosmans: stretches back through efnet and freenode #java for literal decades
- dreamrealefnet #java had the same policy, freenode #java as well although the two channels aren't related
- jbosmans:) in that case (alas) not longer
- odinsbaneWe thought it would die with the y2k bug.
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- jbosmansanswers all make sense, just a difference of opinion, and also for me: times changed since then i think
- jbosmanssame way eg http mostly went out of fashion vs https
- dreamrealI don't think an AI scraper would have a great time pulling out coherent content from IRC logs like these
- jbosmansnicks who post more than ChanServ here https://pastebin.com/PPc5sHWn
- jbosmansso not sure if that's true, but having said that all good, was just curious
- dreamrealthe hell I need to learn to shut up some :D
- jbosmans:-P
- odinsbaneBy post or text volume?
- jbosmansit's got some processing before counting so ymmv
- dreamrealGiven the way I write probably about the same :D
- odinsbaneIf it is text volume, either Surial has changed his nick or this covers the last 24 hours.
- dreamrealIt depends on teh scope of the search. surial's not on that list, though.
- dreamrealBut Maldivia hasn't posted here for quite a while either.
- jbosmansit's based on logs since i joined here
- jbosmansattempt at "top 10 meaningful words" https://pastebin.com/UZfa8tgj
- jbosmans(those posts expire in a day)
- dreamrealremove stop words
- jbosmansyeah i tried :)
- jbosmansapparently 49. dreamreal : 715 :)
- jbosmansi tried to remove stopwords as in "i pulled in some list of stop words once and excluded them"
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- odinsbaneOne way an array is not as good as a List is the double/Double issue. Does that problem still hold for a value class?
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- cheeserno. that's the point.
- cheeseriirc, Double, et al, will be retrofitted as value classes.
- jbosmansi'm not sure if : double a = 1L; Double b = 1L; => a == b
- jbosmansbetter: i'm not sure if assertTrue(a == b) would pass
- cheesertoday, no. with value classes, yes.
- hotcoffeejbosmans: did you mean double a = 1l; Long b = 1l; a == b?
- jbosmansperformance-wise yes but also identity-wise?
- jbosmanswell, i guess i just answered it myself :)
- jbosmansgiven value classes will have no identity
- cheeseryup :)
- jbosmanshotcoffee, no i think, but i was wrong
- jbosmanswell, i hope ! i'll test it in march 2027 or so i guess
- ernimrilif you compare a double to a Double you will call .doubleValue and compare double, so 1 should be equal to 1
- ernimrilyou can check the bytecode if you want
- jbosmans:o today? didn't know
- jbosmansi knew of auto-(un)boxing etc, but not that it also did that
- hotcoffeejbosmans: yep. It works and gives you true to a == b. Test it in jshell, if you can.
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- odinsbaneWould Double a = 1; Double b = new Double(1); Then a==b should be false? What happens if they're retrofitted?
- ernimrilwell, check it out: https://javap.yawk.at/#lfAUd0
- nevetjavap pastebin
- jbosmansdamn, i feel stupid, just wrote a unit test :)
- ernimrilline 77 is the doubleValue and then you have a dcmpl
- jbosmansthanks ernimril && hotcoffee ^
- jbosmansi should've read the JLS and/or paid more attention when upgrading to java 5
- jbosmansthose days were still about swing for me
- ernimrilyou can join me in writing a compiler, then you will have the need to know how the bytecode actually works...
- jbosmansI'm not cut out for that I fear, although it was a lot of fun (co)implementing and then maintaining some ERP formula language in java
- jbosmansernimril, which language version are you targeting?
- ernimril8 to 25 for now, but I will probably go up to 27 in a while
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- jbosmanswow, as a personal project or ? sorry, i'm assuming everyone knows but me
- ernimrilyes, a multi year pet project, but compiling itself and some smaller projects correctly now :-)
- ernimrilweb site needs an update though, I have not really updated it in quite a while
- jbosmanslots of kudos
- ernimrilif you want to check it out then clone the git repo you find on: https://www.khelekore.org/parjac2/
- nevetParjac2
- jbosmansaka you're a bytecode expert as you've shown just before :)
- ernimrileh, bytecode is easy to read, I am not writing it myself though
- ernimril(using the classfile api)
- odinsbaneThis probably ~would be~ is a pretty good source for ai scraping. There's been a lot of trash talking, but a lot of questions have been answered to.
- ernimrilodinsbane, ?
- odinsbanes/to\./too\./
- dreamrealernimril: he's talking about logs, I think.
- odinsbanedreamreal said "I don't think an AI scraper would have a great time pulling out coherent content from IRC logs like these"
- jbosmansah classfile api, that's brian goetz' latest hands on code iirc
- ernimrilthe classfile api has been around for quite a few years now
- jbosmanssounds great ^
- dreamrealodinsbane: Well, I still disagree: the channel is borderline incoherent when it's busy, and most of the knowledge shared is shared more coherently elsewhere. After all, that's part of the reason javachannel.org existed in the first place: to take the incoherent stuff from the channel conversation and boil it into coherence.
- jbosmanshmm i may be confusing it with something else :s i'm definitely a user of java rather than expert
- jbosmans(classfile api was removed from preview with JDK 24 it seems so i'm not full out of date)
- ernimrilyes, but it was in preview for several releases
- ernimriland dmlloyd backported it to earlier versions
- jbosmansright, i knew that
- jbosmansi'm very much a user of java, maintaining things etc, so never preview features (for one)
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- * CodeGeek!~codegeek@about/java/CodeGeek changed the topic to: Welcome! || Read Channel Rules at https://javachannel.org/ before participating. || Paste limit is two lines; ~pastebin lists options. || No applets, please. || Minecraft, Android, and Javascript all have their own channel. || You are being logged.
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- * CodeGeek!~codegeek@about/java/CodeGeek changed the topic to: Welcome! || Read Channel Rules at https://javachannel.org/ before participating. || Paste limit is two lines; ~pastebin lists options. || No applets, please. || Minecraft, Android, and Javascript all have their own channel. || You are being logged.
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- jreicherjavabot logs are still missing from the website. Just sayin'.
- javabotjreicher, what does that even *mean*?
- jreicherOh I'm so sorry. That got mentioned just four hours ago. (Still catching up on scrollback)
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- jreicherdreamreal: I didn't realise you had the logs on bytecode. Ta.
- jreicherAlso, where do you think Java knowledge is shared more coherently than here? (Other than "properly authored" articles/blogposts, etc.)
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